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	<title>Comments on: Unintentional Pirates, or Listening to Readers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/</link>
	<description>Dissecting the publishing industry with love and skepticism</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 06:15:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Walt Shiel</title>
		<link>http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/comment-page-1/#comment-170095</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt Shiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/#comment-170095</guid>
		<description>Maybe, in my hurried response, I was not clear.

I do not apply the &quot;thief&quot; label to the end consumers in this case but, instead, to the publisher who screwed up (intentionally or otherwise).

But you cannot legally &quot;own&quot; property that was sold without the legal right to do so. I see no reason why digital property is any different. If it is not a legal copy, you don&#039;t really own it even if you paid for it.

Of course, there&#039;s no doubt that Amazon blew it with the way this was handled. But I think they were correct in determining that they needed to do something to protect themselves from potential litigation from somebody.

And I always start with the assumption that people are, in general, honest and will do the right thing. Those who prove me wrong are never trusted again. But I won&#039;t damn everyone else because of those bad actors.

As a result, I am anti-DRM and our e-books don&#039;t use it, unless we have no control over it (as with some retailers).

Also, I believe that publishers are foolish to stick to the $9.99 price point and said so in a &lt;a href=&quot;http://waltshiel.com/2009/06/01/e-book-vs-p-book-pricing/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog post last month.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe, in my hurried response, I was not clear.</p>
<p>I do not apply the &#8220;thief&#8221; label to the end consumers in this case but, instead, to the publisher who screwed up (intentionally or otherwise).</p>
<p>But you cannot legally &#8220;own&#8221; property that was sold without the legal right to do so. I see no reason why digital property is any different. If it is not a legal copy, you don&#8217;t really own it even if you paid for it.</p>
<p>Of course, there&#8217;s no doubt that Amazon blew it with the way this was handled. But I think they were correct in determining that they needed to do something to protect themselves from potential litigation from somebody.</p>
<p>And I always start with the assumption that people are, in general, honest and will do the right thing. Those who prove me wrong are never trusted again. But I won&#8217;t damn everyone else because of those bad actors.</p>
<p>As a result, I am anti-DRM and our e-books don&#8217;t use it, unless we have no control over it (as with some retailers).</p>
<p>Also, I believe that publishers are foolish to stick to the $9.99 price point and said so in a <a href="http://waltshiel.com/2009/06/01/e-book-vs-p-book-pricing/" rel="nofollow">blog post last month.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kassia Krozser</title>
		<link>http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/comment-page-1/#comment-170090</link>
		<dc:creator>Kassia Krozser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/#comment-170090</guid>
		<description>Walt -- I am going to disagree here. I do not believe the &lt;em&gt;customers&lt;/em&gt; who bought these books were aware they were not legally for sale in the United States. They went to a trusted retailer and made what they perceived to be a legitimate purchase. There is no evidence of ill-intent on the part of the customers. Why would the Federal government become involved? Amazon handled this poorly because these customers did not know what they had purchased. Their actions were invasive and highlighted the fact that ownership of digital media is different than ownership of physical media. Yes, we&#039;re making up new rules as we go along, but this case should make it clear that the automatic slapping of the term &quot;pirate&quot; on unwitting customers does both them and the problem disservice. It&#039;s really hard to take media companies seriously when they use false statistics to bolster their case -- piracy is a serious enough problem without overinflating &quot;lost sales&quot;.

Add in the fact that not only were the books repossessed without notice, so were any notes and associated consumer commentary. Amazon, in effect, took back these books &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; illegally confiscated someone else&#039;s intellectual property.

Likewise, there is some evidence that twere was territorial rights confusion over this title. I do not know for sure, but given the patchwork quilt of copyright laws we have around the world, these mistakes are only going to increase. Add in the confusion over legitimately public domain over in-copyright (do you honestly think the average US citizen is aware of the nuances of copyright extension laws?), the preponderance of free samples, and the lack of legitimate stores, and you have a lot of readers who simply don&#039;t know.

I do not believe we will ever be in a position to address the serious problem of piracy until we address the underlying reasons. Contrary to media assertions, most people understand that they have to pay for things. They do so willingly. Understanding the factors, including unintentional piracy, behind these behaviors is the smartest, fastest way to solve the problem. Because as we&#039;ve seen in the music industry, litigation didn&#039;t help nearly as much as offering smart, legal choices for consumers.

(And while I applaud Houghton&#039;s quick action to get a legitimate digital version of this book online for readers to purchase, c&#039;mon $9.99?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walt &#8212; I am going to disagree here. I do not believe the <em>customers</em> who bought these books were aware they were not legally for sale in the United States. They went to a trusted retailer and made what they perceived to be a legitimate purchase. There is no evidence of ill-intent on the part of the customers. Why would the Federal government become involved? Amazon handled this poorly because these customers did not know what they had purchased. Their actions were invasive and highlighted the fact that ownership of digital media is different than ownership of physical media. Yes, we&#8217;re making up new rules as we go along, but this case should make it clear that the automatic slapping of the term &#8220;pirate&#8221; on unwitting customers does both them and the problem disservice. It&#8217;s really hard to take media companies seriously when they use false statistics to bolster their case &#8212; piracy is a serious enough problem without overinflating &#8220;lost sales&#8221;.</p>
<p>Add in the fact that not only were the books repossessed without notice, so were any notes and associated consumer commentary. Amazon, in effect, took back these books <em>and</em> illegally confiscated someone else&#8217;s intellectual property.</p>
<p>Likewise, there is some evidence that twere was territorial rights confusion over this title. I do not know for sure, but given the patchwork quilt of copyright laws we have around the world, these mistakes are only going to increase. Add in the confusion over legitimately public domain over in-copyright (do you honestly think the average US citizen is aware of the nuances of copyright extension laws?), the preponderance of free samples, and the lack of legitimate stores, and you have a lot of readers who simply don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>I do not believe we will ever be in a position to address the serious problem of piracy until we address the underlying reasons. Contrary to media assertions, most people understand that they have to pay for things. They do so willingly. Understanding the factors, including unintentional piracy, behind these behaviors is the smartest, fastest way to solve the problem. Because as we&#8217;ve seen in the music industry, litigation didn&#8217;t help nearly as much as offering smart, legal choices for consumers.</p>
<p>(And while I applaud Houghton&#8217;s quick action to get a legitimate digital version of this book online for readers to purchase, c&#8217;mon $9.99?)</p>
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		<title>By: Walt Shiel</title>
		<link>http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/comment-page-1/#comment-170083</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt Shiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/#comment-170083</guid>
		<description>First, I object to the use of the term &quot;piracy&quot; with all its romantic overtones.

Folks, piracy is just a euphemism for theft. Period.

Motives are irrelevant. As is ignorance of the law, which has never been an accepted legal defense.

If the Feds had gotten involved in this issue, they probably would have found out from Amazon who had those e-books on their Kindles. They could then likely, legally have seized all those Kindles. What Amazon did was far less invasive, albeit with really poor customer communication.

Buy a stolen car (or would you rather say &quot;pirated car&quot;?) without knowing it&#039;s stolen. How long do you think the cops will let you keep that car once they find you have it?

Theft is theft, whether of physical or intellectual property. Let&#039;s not glamorize it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I object to the use of the term &#8220;piracy&#8221; with all its romantic overtones.</p>
<p>Folks, piracy is just a euphemism for theft. Period.</p>
<p>Motives are irrelevant. As is ignorance of the law, which has never been an accepted legal defense.</p>
<p>If the Feds had gotten involved in this issue, they probably would have found out from Amazon who had those e-books on their Kindles. They could then likely, legally have seized all those Kindles. What Amazon did was far less invasive, albeit with really poor customer communication.</p>
<p>Buy a stolen car (or would you rather say &#8220;pirated car&#8221;?) without knowing it&#8217;s stolen. How long do you think the cops will let you keep that car once they find you have it?</p>
<p>Theft is theft, whether of physical or intellectual property. Let&#8217;s not glamorize it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kassia Krozser</title>
		<link>http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/comment-page-1/#comment-170082</link>
		<dc:creator>Kassia Krozser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/#comment-170082</guid>
		<description>Yes, Melinda, that is stealing. I&#039;ve had this happen to me (and it was both angering and funny as the pirates stole in way that was more nonsensical than anything), and it&#039;s stealing. We need better international protection and better ways to protect copyright holders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Melinda, that is stealing. I&#8217;ve had this happen to me (and it was both angering and funny as the pirates stole in way that was more nonsensical than anything), and it&#8217;s stealing. We need better international protection and better ways to protect copyright holders.</p>
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		<title>By: Melinda Blau</title>
		<link>http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/comment-page-1/#comment-170080</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda Blau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/#comment-170080</guid>
		<description>Is it also piracy when someone--say someone from Russia--lifts your blog word for word without attribution.  Yesterday, show a friend how search engines work, I googled &quot;consequential strangers,&quot; the subject of my upcoming book. Lo and behold i found a site written in both English and Russian,,,and a post by me relating GM&#039;s bankruptcy to its disregard for CS.  I put a lot of time and thought into that post and while I realize it might lead to best seller status in Leningrad someday, it feel as if pirates had come onto my ship and left with some of my booty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it also piracy when someone&#8211;say someone from Russia&#8211;lifts your blog word for word without attribution.  Yesterday, show a friend how search engines work, I googled &#8220;consequential strangers,&#8221; the subject of my upcoming book. Lo and behold i found a site written in both English and Russian,,,and a post by me relating GM&#8217;s bankruptcy to its disregard for CS.  I put a lot of time and thought into that post and while I realize it might lead to best seller status in Leningrad someday, it feel as if pirates had come onto my ship and left with some of my booty.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/comment-page-1/#comment-170076</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/#comment-170076</guid>
		<description>@chris - the status of &quot;1984&quot; outside of the U.S. isn&#039;t particularly relevant to Kindle owners who, by definition, are all in the U.S. 

The book in question was being sold in violation of the U.S. copyright. Even if this was being done unintentionally many would consider that to be a form of piracy (profiting from an IP product that someone else owns the rights to).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@chris &#8211; the status of &#8220;1984&#8243; outside of the U.S. isn&#8217;t particularly relevant to Kindle owners who, by definition, are all in the U.S. </p>
<p>The book in question was being sold in violation of the U.S. copyright. Even if this was being done unintentionally many would consider that to be a form of piracy (profiting from an IP product that someone else owns the rights to).</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Hoopes</title>
		<link>http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/comment-page-1/#comment-170075</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Hoopes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/#comment-170075</guid>
		<description>The one observation that is missing from this article is that the book was not pirated. The two books that were &quot;repossessed&quot; are public domain outside the United States. They are even public domain even in Canada.

The company providing these ebooks has the right to deliver them outside the USA. They just didn&#039;t have the right to do so within the United States. &quot;1984&quot; is back on Amazon&#039;s Kindle list (from the same distributor) with a disclaimer stating it is intended for use outside the USA.

It&#039;s not a state of piracy, but one of them overstepping their permissions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The one observation that is missing from this article is that the book was not pirated. The two books that were &#8220;repossessed&#8221; are public domain outside the United States. They are even public domain even in Canada.</p>
<p>The company providing these ebooks has the right to deliver them outside the USA. They just didn&#8217;t have the right to do so within the United States. &#8220;1984&#8243; is back on Amazon&#8217;s Kindle list (from the same distributor) with a disclaimer stating it is intended for use outside the USA.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a state of piracy, but one of them overstepping their permissions.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Knipe [SciFiGuy]</title>
		<link>http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/comment-page-1/#comment-170074</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Knipe [SciFiGuy]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://booksquare.com/unintentional-pirates-or-listening-to-readers/#comment-170074</guid>
		<description>What a wonderful common sense approach to the whole subject. But then if common sense was so common more people would have it wouldn&#039;t they?
If I want to rent a book I&#039;ll use the library not Amazon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a wonderful common sense approach to the whole subject. But then if common sense was so common more people would have it wouldn&#8217;t they?<br />
If I want to rent a book I&#8217;ll use the library not Amazon.</p>
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